David Gaider, scénariste, sur le forum de Bioware a écrit:To the OP: doing the same act repeatedly and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. What you hope to achieve by posting the same thread over and over again I can't honestly say.
To some of the others on this thread: While an ignorant opinion politely expressed doesn't make it less ignorant, I will say that the behavior of some of you is far worse. Calling someone a "troll" who expressed his thoughts in an intelligent manner and acting like hooligans suggesting if you just throw enough dirt that eventually that person will either go away or the thread will get locked will earn you a ban. No matter the opinion, I think how it's expressed deserves the same in kind. If you can't do that, refrain.
To the issue: I've said it before and I'll say it again-- perhaps a bit more eloquently, since it's apparently of dire concern to some.
The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.
More than that, I would question anyone deciding they speak for "the straight male gamer" just as much as someone claiming they speak for "all RPG fans", "all female fans" or even "all gay fans". You don't. If you wish to express your personal desires, then do so. I have no doubt that any opinion expressed on these forums is shared by many others, but since none of them have elected a spokesperson you're better off not trying to be one. If your attempt is to convince BioWare developers, I can tell you that you do in fact make your opinion less convincing by doing so.
And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don't see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what's everyone's fuss all about? That's the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want.
The truth is that making a romance available for both genders is far less costly than creating an entirely new one. Does it create some issues of implementation? Sure-- but anything you try on this front is going to have its issues, and inevitably you'll always leave someone out in the cold. In this case, are all straight males left out in the cold? Not at all. There are romances available for them just the same as anyone else. Not all straight males require that their content be exclusive, after all, and you can see that even on this thread.
Would I do it again? I don't know. I doubt I would have Anders make the first move again-- at the time, I thought that requiring all romances to have Hawke initiate everything was the unrealistic part. Even if someone decides that this makes everyone "unrealistically" bisexual, however, or they can't handle the idea that the character might be bisexual if they were another PC... I don't see that as a big concern, to be honest. Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here.
And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible.
In a wall of text. Sorry about that.
And I'm sorry if someone didn't get everything they wanted out of the romances-- as I always am. I wish we could do the ideal where there's something for every desire and opinion, but as usual we make do.
Martin a écrit:Bonus : un fil sur QT3 à propos de la réponse d'un scénariste de Bioware sur le forum officiel à un joueur se plaignant de l'homosexualité des personnages dans DA 2 (apparemment tous les personnages qu'on peut séduire sont bi-sexuels)
Zure a écrit: C'est pas parce que je suis hétéro que je vais aimer que les jeux hyper viril avec des mecs qui défoncent tout à coup de shotgun.
Zure a écrit:C'est pas parce que je suis hétéro que je vais aimer que les jeux hyper viril avec des mecs qui défoncent tout à coup de shotgun.
Zure a écrit:Donc au final, y a aucun débat à avoir, on est tous gay.
Zure a écrit:Je me demande surtout pourquoi y a besoin de catégoriser le JV en jeux gays ou jeux pour filles, etc. Et je vois pas trop en quoi l'orientation sexuelle a un quelconque effet sur le jeu en lui-même ? C'est pas parce que je suis hétéro que je vais aimer que les jeux hyper viril avec des mecs qui défoncent tout à coup de shotgun. Et c'est pas parce que j'aime Flower ou ICO que ça me féminise pour autant. Enfin, je sais pas je trouve que c'est chelou de classifier les trucs comme ça.
Martin a écrit:Deux jeux indés aux thèmes lesbienss qui viennennt de sortir, pour lancer le débat :
Lesbian Spider-Queen of Mars d'Anna Anthropy (qui est je crois une femme transexuelle lesbienne).
OF COURSE you had to check it out. I mean, it has the word "lesbian" in it! If it had been just "Spider-Queens of Mars" you wouldn't have cared. But since it's "LESBIAN Spider-Queens of Mars" there's no way you could NOT check it out.
Because you're gamers! And the only thing male gamers are more obsessed about than the elusive fantasy creatures called girl gamers is -that's right- the even more elusive and downright magical creatures known as lesbians! Male gamers are even more obsessed about lesbians than non-gamer guys!
Sorry, I lost my temper and now I wanna rant!
See, there's this thing about this site that's been bothering since day one... Kotaku will post articles about pretty much anything that has to do with boobs, upskirts, porn stars, strippers or lesbians if they can make it look like it has even remotely touches the topic of video games, anime or Japan. And why? Because you're you keep forgetting that Kotaku has female readers who find it degrading that boobs, asses and lesbians are topics that will pass the news treshold regarless of the fact that the articles usually have VERY LITTLE to do with video games.
This site calls itself "the Gamer's Guide".
Just think about that for a second.
"THE GAMER'S GUIDE"
I suppose one very important function of the gamer's guide is to provide gamers with news about their favourite wank material?
I wanna fucking see how many male gamers would get sick of a video game website where all the editors are female gamers who constantly keep posting articles about dicks, bulges, muscles, male strippers and porn stars and sickeningly good-looking androgynous men.
No, you wouldn't fucking be happy about that! It'd annoy the crap out of you in just a couple of weeks!
But it's perfectly okay that us female gamers have to read about how fucking facinated you are with some flash game about pixel spiders 'cause the title has the word "LESBIAN" in it! And we have to read about how facinated you are about the clevage in Red Faction. And we have to read about all your other frickin' sexual fantasies and obsessions because you're male gamers and it's a commonly accepted fact that video game websites are the final havens of male idiocy where it's totally okay to be an obnoxious sexist, chauvinist asshole!
Probablement, je la/le connais pas, mais je veux dire qu'être transsexuelle ne garantit pas que la question des personnages gays sera traitée avec plus d'intelligence qu'ailleurs. Vu le titre de toute façon ça a l'air de viser quelque chose d'assez kitsch et rétro. Rien de révolutionnaire quoi. Bon je n'y ai pas joué donc je veux pas faire de procès, mais là ça sent quand même le cliché de la lesbienne sexy avec une dose de sado-masochisme... On l'a pas attendu pour ça, merci.
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